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	<title>Comments on: Folsom Takes It to the People</title>
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		<title>By: bhmhomeboy</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16501</link>
		<dc:creator>bhmhomeboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16501</guid>
		<description>Folsom can carry his own water and thank goodness he&#039;s ready, willing and able to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Folsom can carry his own water and thank goodness he&#8217;s ready, willing and able to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16452</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16452</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll give you a hand bhamhomeboy.  Therm is suggesting that you should deal with our arguments on their actual merits without concern for our motives.  For example, you didn&#039;t hear either of us accuse you of being a water boy for Folsom.  That would be crass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll give you a hand bhamhomeboy.  Therm is suggesting that you should deal with our arguments on their actual merits without concern for our motives.  For example, you didn&#8217;t hear either of us accuse you of being a water boy for Folsom.  That would be crass.</p>
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		<title>By: Therm</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16451</link>
		<dc:creator>Therm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16451</guid>
		<description>There you go again bhmmomeboy, another attack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There you go again bhmmomeboy, another attack.</p>
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		<title>By: bhmhomeboy@aol.com</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16443</link>
		<dc:creator>bhmhomeboy@aol.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16443</guid>
		<description>What ad hominem attack?  I was just speculating as to your motives and why you two seem to  care more about Exxon/Mobile that you do the welfare of the citizens of the state of Alabama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What ad hominem attack?  I was just speculating as to your motives and why you two seem to  care more about Exxon/Mobile that you do the welfare of the citizens of the state of Alabama.</p>
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		<title>By: Therm</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16432</link>
		<dc:creator>Therm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 01:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16432</guid>
		<description>Bhmhomeboy..I own no oil and gas company stock.  As Brian says lots of folks do, including pension funds and they too would be impacted by revenge taxes. 

I since you cannot respond with a factual, logical argument you respond with an ad hominem attack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bhmhomeboy..I own no oil and gas company stock.  As Brian says lots of folks do, including pension funds and they too would be impacted by revenge taxes. </p>
<p>I since you cannot respond with a factual, logical argument you respond with an ad hominem attack.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16430</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16430</guid>
		<description>I wish I directly owned shares of Exxon.  But a huge swatch of the country does indirectly own Exxon stock through mutual funds in 401ks.  If you have any mutual fund investments I encourage you to see how many of them own Exxon (or another large, evil oil company) shares.

My argument is based on principle, though, not what investments I may or may not have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish I directly owned shares of Exxon.  But a huge swatch of the country does indirectly own Exxon stock through mutual funds in 401ks.  If you have any mutual fund investments I encourage you to see how many of them own Exxon (or another large, evil oil company) shares.</p>
<p>My argument is based on principle, though, not what investments I may or may not have.</p>
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		<title>By: bhmhomeboy@aol.com</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16428</link>
		<dc:creator>bhmhomeboy@aol.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16428</guid>
		<description>Brian and Therm must own stock in Exxon/Mobile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian and Therm must own stock in Exxon/Mobile.</p>
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		<title>By: Therm</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16425</link>
		<dc:creator>Therm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16425</guid>
		<description>What you have to understand about the payment of royalty (for state owned minerals) and severance tax is the calculations of what is owed is too complex to be completely accurate in the short period of time after production that it is due.  Oil and gas severance taxpayers send in an estimated payment (usually too much) and file a revised return once all the information necessary to calculate the actual tax is available.

The severance tax case being discussed covers 7 years of tax payments.  So, the refund(correction)annualized is small. There have been several severance tax cases go before the Alabama Supreme Court over the years.  The state has never won a case...even when Democrats controlled the court.

Another item to consider.  The state owns the natural gas in the offshore area.  The state does not own the natural gas, oil or other minerals onshore.  The state might have a few pockets of minerals here and there, but it is not significant at all. Small independent companies do most of the exploration onshore. 

Who owns these minerals?  Citizens, families and businesses own these minerals.  It is a property right just like an acre of dirt is.  These folks lease the minerals to companies who have the money to pay for drilling the wells.  More often than not, the well is not commercially viable.  If the well is good the mineral owner will receive royalty (provided for in a private contract)after expenses, which include the payment of taxes like severance.

So, jacking up severance taxes by any manner (value or volume) will take money out of the pockets of the mineral owners.  By the way, the royalty income (which already has had taxes taken out) is also subject to income taxes.

Most large oil and gas producing states use a value system.  Most of them have similar issues with working out the details of the taxable value of the product upon which the taxes are paid.

The best way to discourage domestic energy production at a time when we need it the most is to increase the cost of doing business in Alabama.  Our state goes out of the way to throw money at manufactures to get them to locate here and invest billions in building their plants.  The oil and gas industry has invested billions as well, but all some state leaders want is to beat up on them. 

When you jack up severance taxes (by volume or value) you hit hundreds of independent producers and tens of thousands of Alabama citizens at the same time you take out your vengeance on Exxon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you have to understand about the payment of royalty (for state owned minerals) and severance tax is the calculations of what is owed is too complex to be completely accurate in the short period of time after production that it is due.  Oil and gas severance taxpayers send in an estimated payment (usually too much) and file a revised return once all the information necessary to calculate the actual tax is available.</p>
<p>The severance tax case being discussed covers 7 years of tax payments.  So, the refund(correction)annualized is small. There have been several severance tax cases go before the Alabama Supreme Court over the years.  The state has never won a case&#8230;even when Democrats controlled the court.</p>
<p>Another item to consider.  The state owns the natural gas in the offshore area.  The state does not own the natural gas, oil or other minerals onshore.  The state might have a few pockets of minerals here and there, but it is not significant at all. Small independent companies do most of the exploration onshore. </p>
<p>Who owns these minerals?  Citizens, families and businesses own these minerals.  It is a property right just like an acre of dirt is.  These folks lease the minerals to companies who have the money to pay for drilling the wells.  More often than not, the well is not commercially viable.  If the well is good the mineral owner will receive royalty (provided for in a private contract)after expenses, which include the payment of taxes like severance.</p>
<p>So, jacking up severance taxes by any manner (value or volume) will take money out of the pockets of the mineral owners.  By the way, the royalty income (which already has had taxes taken out) is also subject to income taxes.</p>
<p>Most large oil and gas producing states use a value system.  Most of them have similar issues with working out the details of the taxable value of the product upon which the taxes are paid.</p>
<p>The best way to discourage domestic energy production at a time when we need it the most is to increase the cost of doing business in Alabama.  Our state goes out of the way to throw money at manufactures to get them to locate here and invest billions in building their plants.  The oil and gas industry has invested billions as well, but all some state leaders want is to beat up on them. </p>
<p>When you jack up severance taxes (by volume or value) you hit hundreds of independent producers and tens of thousands of Alabama citizens at the same time you take out your vengeance on Exxon.</p>
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		<title>By: Paine</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16372</link>
		<dc:creator>Paine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16372</guid>
		<description>Brian-
I do find it interesting that you link that article. First, the matter is still to be decided by a trial court, much less an appellate level court. Second, it certainly cuts against your argument that Exxon has already paid Alabama fairly. Not only were the compensatory damages that an Alabama jury awarded for Exxon&#039;s alleged actions cut by more than half, but, now Exxon, in an amended tax return, not only disputes the State&#039;s claim that Exxon underpaid, but claims even bigger refunds than the company claimed on its original return. Maybe we should be asking why they don&#039;t want to bear a fair share of the tax burden rather than you asking why we aren&#039;t grateful to them for taking our prescious natural resources off our hands. I am sure no other company would be willing to take them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian-<br />
I do find it interesting that you link that article. First, the matter is still to be decided by a trial court, much less an appellate level court. Second, it certainly cuts against your argument that Exxon has already paid Alabama fairly. Not only were the compensatory damages that an Alabama jury awarded for Exxon&#8217;s alleged actions cut by more than half, but, now Exxon, in an amended tax return, not only disputes the State&#8217;s claim that Exxon underpaid, but claims even bigger refunds than the company claimed on its original return. Maybe we should be asking why they don&#8217;t want to bear a fair share of the tax burden rather than you asking why we aren&#8217;t grateful to them for taking our prescious natural resources off our hands. I am sure no other company would be willing to take them.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16358</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16358</guid>
		<description>The highest court in our state threw out the punitive award, which indicates that they did not find grounds for punishing Exxon.  What basis does Folsom have for effectively instituting a punitive tax increase?

And whether or not you recognize it, Folsom is using Exxon&#039;s size against them by pointing out their &quot;record setting profits.&quot;  Lot&#039;s of companies make record profits all the time.  I believe the company I work for recorded record profits last year, but that will never make the papers because we are quite small relative to Exxon.  Large as it may be, Exxon is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7276986&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;dwarf in the global oil business&lt;/a&gt; and must be large to be competitive.  With large companies comes large revenues and (hopefully) large profits.  But the actual dollar amount is meaningless - it is profit margin that counts.  For all the talk about Exxon&#039;s &quot;record profits&quot; their profit margin is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.flashpointblog.com/2007/02/01/exxon-posts-modest-profits-for-2006/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;only about 10%&lt;/a&gt;, while 20-30% is quite common in some industries.  When Folsom and other politicians speak of Exxon&#039;s record profits they are attempting to win over the financially ignorant.  I guess he hooked you.

(Aside, we should be applauding the fact that an American based company that hires lots of our citizens  can be so successful, not demagoguing their “record profits” and concluding that they should bear a greater tax burden as a direct result of their success.)

And taxes on businesses are costs of business - costs that are reflected in higher prices for consumers, i.e. consumers effectively pay corporate taxes.  This isn&#039;t some &quot;trickle down economics&quot; notion.  Two Democrat presidential candidates (Obama and Richardson) explicitly admitted during a recent debate that business taxes are borne by consumers.

And like I said in my post, the switch to a volume based system (like we pay) shouldn&#039;t be made without careful consideration.  That pricing method yields less revenue for Alabama than a value based system if prices keep rising.

Also, I linked to an article in my response where the state was found guilty of under refunding money related to oil taxes.  I guess by Folsom&#039;s logic the state should implement some punitive measure against itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The highest court in our state threw out the punitive award, which indicates that they did not find grounds for punishing Exxon.  What basis does Folsom have for effectively instituting a punitive tax increase?</p>
<p>And whether or not you recognize it, Folsom is using Exxon&#8217;s size against them by pointing out their &#8220;record setting profits.&#8221;  Lot&#8217;s of companies make record profits all the time.  I believe the company I work for recorded record profits last year, but that will never make the papers because we are quite small relative to Exxon.  Large as it may be, Exxon is a <a href="http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7276986" rel="nofollow">dwarf in the global oil business</a> and must be large to be competitive.  With large companies comes large revenues and (hopefully) large profits.  But the actual dollar amount is meaningless &#8211; it is profit margin that counts.  For all the talk about Exxon&#8217;s &#8220;record profits&#8221; their profit margin is <a href="http://www.flashpointblog.com/2007/02/01/exxon-posts-modest-profits-for-2006/" rel="nofollow">only about 10%</a>, while 20-30% is quite common in some industries.  When Folsom and other politicians speak of Exxon&#8217;s record profits they are attempting to win over the financially ignorant.  I guess he hooked you.</p>
<p>(Aside, we should be applauding the fact that an American based company that hires lots of our citizens  can be so successful, not demagoguing their “record profits” and concluding that they should bear a greater tax burden as a direct result of their success.)</p>
<p>And taxes on businesses are costs of business &#8211; costs that are reflected in higher prices for consumers, i.e. consumers effectively pay corporate taxes.  This isn&#8217;t some &#8220;trickle down economics&#8221; notion.  Two Democrat presidential candidates (Obama and Richardson) explicitly admitted during a recent debate that business taxes are borne by consumers.</p>
<p>And like I said in my post, the switch to a volume based system (like we pay) shouldn&#8217;t be made without careful consideration.  That pricing method yields less revenue for Alabama than a value based system if prices keep rising.</p>
<p>Also, I linked to an article in my response where the state was found guilty of under refunding money related to oil taxes.  I guess by Folsom&#8217;s logic the state should implement some punitive measure against itself.</p>
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		<title>By: bhmhomeboy@aol.com</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16343</link>
		<dc:creator>bhmhomeboy@aol.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 05:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16343</guid>
		<description>PPS and last word:

WE the people are already paying high gas prices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PPS and last word:</p>
<p>WE the people are already paying high gas prices.</p>
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		<title>By: bhmhomeboy@aol.com</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16342</link>
		<dc:creator>bhmhomeboy@aol.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 05:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16342</guid>
		<description>How is this a &quot;guise to raise taxes&quot; on the Alabama taxpayers?

Related to this… Lt. Gov. Jim Folsom wants the legislature to change the oil and gas severance tax that ExxonMobil pays the state of Alabama “from a value based system to a volume based system. That way Exxon will have to pay the same way you do — based on what they pump.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is this a &#8220;guise to raise taxes&#8221; on the Alabama taxpayers?</p>
<p>Related to this… Lt. Gov. Jim Folsom wants the legislature to change the oil and gas severance tax that ExxonMobil pays the state of Alabama “from a value based system to a volume based system. That way Exxon will have to pay the same way you do — based on what they pump.”</p>
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		<title>By: bhmhomeboy@aol.com</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16341</link>
		<dc:creator>bhmhomeboy@aol.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 05:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16341</guid>
		<description>To my knowledge Exxon/Mobile wasn&#039;t being punished for being large.  They were found guilty by a jury and the Alabama Supreme Court overturned the verdict.  So it&#039;s not like Exxon/Mobile was found guilty of being large.  They were found guilty of breaking the law.   
Lt. Governor Folsoms&#039; plan to simplify the tax code is not a &quot;guise&quot; to increase taxes for the average citizen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To my knowledge Exxon/Mobile wasn&#8217;t being punished for being large.  They were found guilty by a jury and the Alabama Supreme Court overturned the verdict.  So it&#8217;s not like Exxon/Mobile was found guilty of being large.  They were found guilty of breaking the law.<br />
Lt. Governor Folsoms&#8217; plan to simplify the tax code is not a &#8220;guise&#8221; to increase taxes for the average citizen.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16314</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 20:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16314</guid>
		<description>No, I&#039;m for the present &lt;i&gt;tax rate&lt;/i&gt;.  Folsom is proposing to increase taxes under the guise of tax simplification.

The size of the corporation has nothing to do with the matter.  Should Exxon, or any other company, be punished for having the nerve to be large?  And in the end consumers pay corporate taxes through higher prices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I&#8217;m for the present <i>tax rate</i>.  Folsom is proposing to increase taxes under the guise of tax simplification.</p>
<p>The size of the corporation has nothing to do with the matter.  Should Exxon, or any other company, be punished for having the nerve to be large?  And in the end consumers pay corporate taxes through higher prices.</p>
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		<title>By: bhmhomeboy</title>
		<link>http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/comment-page-1/#comment-16313</link>
		<dc:creator>bhmhomeboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 20:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.politicalparlor.net/wp/2008/01/16/folsom-takes-it-to-the-people/#comment-16313</guid>
		<description>Corrections to previous post:

Your thoughts are to verbose for me to fully comprend, but it appears as if you are for the big corporations, the present tax code and the trail lawyers who will benfit from &quot;jackpot justice&quot;,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corrections to previous post:</p>
<p>Your thoughts are to verbose for me to fully comprend, but it appears as if you are for the big corporations, the present tax code and the trail lawyers who will benfit from &#8220;jackpot justice&#8221;,</p>
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